Podcast: After Mahsa Amini: Iran’s fight for freedom, with Masih Alinejad
Listen: Iran is being rocked by its most significant protests since the Green Movement of 2009. Since September, hundreds of thousands of young and mostly female demonstrators have filled the streets of nearly every major city from Tehran to Tabriz, many discarding their headscarves at great personal risk to protest draconian societal rules and restrictions. The backlash from security forces has been brutal, though (except in the Kurdish region) the government has yet to send in the Revolutionary Guard.
Iranian-American journalist and activist Masih Alinejad joins Ian Bremmer on the GZERO World podcast to discuss. Where will these protests lead, and what are the geopolitical implications for the region, and for the West? Alinejad shares her views on the unprecedented unity among the Iranian protesters, her personal experience being targeted by the Iranian government even after moving to the United States, and why the Iranian men's World Cup team does not deserve sympathy.
TRANSCRIPT: After Mahsa Amini: Iran’s fight for freedom, with Masih Alinejad
Masih Alinejad:
It breaks my heart when I see that. For years and years, I have been warning the whole world about the danger of morality police. Now because of the brutal death of Mahsa Amini, finally we see sense of unity among feminists, athletes, celebrities, female politicians, which is beautiful. But it didn't need for teenagers to get killed in Iran for the whole world to wake up.
Ian Bremmer:
Hello, and welcome to the GZERO World Podcast. This is where you'll find extended versions of my interviews on public television. I'm Ian Bremmer. And on this episode, we're looking at the most significant protests to rock Iran since the Green Movement back in 2009.
Since September, hundreds of thousands of young and mostly female demonstrators have filled the streets of nearly every major city in Iran, from Tehran to Tabriz, many discarding their head scarfs at great personal risk to protest draconian social rules and restrictions.
The backlash from security forces has been brutal, though except in the Kurdish region, the Iranian government has yet to send in the Revolutionary Guard.
And it's happening at a time when Iran is already in the spotlight when its men's national team put up a heck of a fight at the 2022 World Cup watched by over a billion people.
Where will these protests lead, and what are the geopolitical implications for the region and for the West? I'm joined today by Iranian-American journalist and activist Masih Alinejad to discuss all that and more. Let's get to it.
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Ian Bremmer:
Masih, thanks for joining us. I appreciate it.
Masih Alinejad: Thank you so much. I'm so excited.
Ian Bremmer:
Look, I want to get, of course, to everything happening on the ground in Iran. But first, I want to ask you about the World Cup because of course, extraordinary scenes in Iran that you posted about: Iranians celebrating in Iran.
Masih Alinejad:
Can you believe that?
Ian Bremmer: Because they were defeated by the United States?
Masih Alinejad:
Yes.
Ian Bremmer:
Okay. Explain this to me, please.
Masih Alinejad:
I know it's very embarrassing for the Islamic Republic, but it's beautiful actually. For years and years, the Islamic Republic actually brainwashed us to say "Death to America."
I myself, I grew up in a tiny village. I was told that I have to shout "Death to America" as loud as the White House could hear us. Now you hear that people in the street were holding the flag of America, celebrating the US victory because it means that the Islamic Republic is kicked out from World Cup.
And it means that the Islamic Republic doesn't have a global platform anymore to normalize its murderous regime. The World Cup, it was a platform for Iranians, if the football players like showing solidarity with Iranian people.
Before coming to World Cup, all of them, they went to the mass murderer, Ebrahim Raisi, they bowed to him, they shook his hand. So believe me, the football team doesn't represent Iranians. It does represent the gender apartheid regime.
Ian Bremmer:
Now, the Iranians, the young Iranian men on this team, did seem very sympathetic. I saw that they were. The first time around, they were not singing the national anthem. Then they're threatened, then they sing it in a wooden way.
Some of them were crying afterwards. The American players were supporting them, in some cases even embracing them. Did any of that come through in Iran at all? Did the Iranian people see any of that?
Masih Alinejad:
Look, I'm a woman. You are talking to a woman who's been kicked out from stadiums to watch football for 40 years. And you want me to have sympathy with these male football players who never, never stood up for women in Iran?
Imagine it was not women of Iran, it was women here in America being kicked out from stadiums. Would you really celebrate your national team? This is not a national team.
So that is why Iranians were really happy in the street. In the city of Saqqez, the hometown of Mahsa Amini who got killed by hijab police, that was the first city that people took to the streets and chanting that, "America, America, we are behind you."
Ian Bremmer:
I am deeply empathetic with your message and with what you've come from, where you've been through, so your bona fides are not a question to me. But when I see an Iranian team that doesn't sing the national anthem and is supposedly threatened and their families are threatened to force them to...
Certainly in authoritarian regimes, in the past, we've seen many occasions where these people themselves are in danger. Citizens are in danger from what they're doing. So I'm just wondering, were they under that pressure?
Masih Alinejad:
Of course. But look, compare the pressure that teenagers are facing. The first round when they were praying with wells, people were getting killed in the cities of Kurdistan.
People were facing guns and bullets, but they were happy. They were celebrating. And don't forget, not singing national anthem, which is actually is not national anthem. It's the anthem of the Islamic Republic.
Ian Bremmer:
Of the Islamic Republic. Exactly.
Masih Alinejad:
It's not a big deal.
Ian Bremmer:
That's why they were not doing...
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah.
Ian Bremmer:
It wasn't a big deal?
Masih Alinejad:
Was not a big deal.
Ian Bremmer:
You're showing that off as a demonstration against your regime in front of a billion people.
Masih Alinejad:
No. It's too late and too little when people are getting killed. And look, I'm going to actually show you the correct way of standing with the people of Iran.
When Voria Ghafouri, one of football player, very well-known football player got arrested recently, all of these members of national team, they were quiet and silent.
But female football players in Iran, you know what they did? They said that we are going to stop play until the day that we see Voria Ghafouri is out of prison. This is called solidarity. This is called the standing with the people of Iran.
Ian Bremmer:
And he's still in prison today, or he's been removed?
Masih Alinejad:
He's been removed now.
Ian Bremmer:
He's been removed? So now they're playing again?
Masih Alinejad:
Of course. But listen, but now these women are playing, they're removing their hijab. They can face lashes. They can face imprisonment. Right now, Iranian people are actually leading one of the historical revolution led by women, supported by men.
And this is the time that many well-known athletes, they're quitting their job. Many well-known actress, they're quitting their job. So this is the moment that we want to see that football players using global platform bravely, holding the pictures of Mahsa, holding the pictures of children getting killed and going to different medias talking about it.
Ian Bremmer:
And that they did not certainly do?
Masih Alinejad:
They didn't.
Ian Bremmer:
They did not do.
Masih Alinejad:
And don't forget that.
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
Before coming to the World Cup, as I told you, they shared the story of the Ayatollah, Supreme Leader of Iran. They shook the hand of Ebrahim Raisi. They actually show their sympathy with Qasem Soleimani. These are something that you cannot forget that.
Ian Bremmer:
Now since we're talking about sports, another sports story, because Iran has been in the news quite a bit on this stuff recently. This woman, the rock climber who did not wear a head scarf while she was...
Masih Alinejad:
Elnaz Rekabi.
Ian Bremmer:
Not a trivial thing to do. It gets in your way, right? It's not exactly helpful for the sport. There was some news that she suddenly disappeared, but now she's fine.
Masih Alinejad:
No, she's not fine. Just now that I'm talking to you, the Iranian regime vandalized her house. So you see, when women are sacrificing their life-
Ian Bremmer:
Well, what happened to her? Tell me the story because she was fine when she came back. And then she's out of the news, of course, so no one's going to talk about her.
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly.
Ian Bremmer:
So it's been about a month and a half or something like that. What's happened to her since she's gone back? That's my question.
Masih Alinejad:
First of all, they took her brother hostage while she was out-
Ian Bremmer:
While she was out of the country?
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly.
Ian Bremmer:
Right. Yes.
Masih Alinejad:
Why? Because then they could make her to go back to Iran instead of... Then they put a lot of pressure on her to say that, "It was a mistake that I removed my hijab."
And you know what? She encouraged a lot of actress to do the same, removing the hijab and using the ironic word like saying that, "This is a mistake. Mistakely, I remove my hijab. Mistakely, I make a video and mistakely, I say that I don't regret." So you see, this is an act of protest, an act of civil disobedience that we expected the member of Iran's national team to do the same.
Ian Bremmer:
No. It's like the Chinese holding up a blank paper, right?
Masih Alinejad:
Yes.
Ian Bremmer:
It's the same sort of thing. We know the message that's actually been delivered. It's a courageous message to deliver.
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah.
Ian Bremmer:
And so now she's there. She's in public life, but she's still under enormous amount of pressure.
Masih Alinejad:
A lot of pressure. A lot of pressure. I'm telling you today, when I saw the videos of her house being vandalized, and her brother actually shared very emotional and touching story on his Instagram page saying that, "You put a lot of pressure on us. We didn't even say anything. Then what you want from us?"
It's heartbreaking. For 40 years, women were forced to cover themselves, and she bravely showed the rest of the world that this is not what we want. And now she's under pressure.
And that is why we call on international sport federations to take a strong action. Putin's football team, they got expelled from World Cup. What is different between Putin and Khamenei? You tell me.
Ian Bremmer:
Well, one invaded a sovereign country.
Masih Alinejad:
By whose help? Khamenei sending drones to Putin.
Ian Bremmer:
True. That is true. But I'm simply saying that there is... On the international stage, having invaded a neighboring country does-
Masih Alinejad:
Trust me, my brother, Islamic Republic invaded Iran.
Ian Bremmer:
Look, I understand that. I do understand. That's fine.
Masih Alinejad:
It breaks my heart when I see that. For years and years, I have been warning the whole world about the danger of morality police. But a lot of female athletes, female politicians, they were trying to be politically correct. And they were obeying compulsory hijab laws without saying anything.
Now, because of the brutal death of Mahsa Amini, finally we see sense of unity among feminists, athletes, celebrities, female politicians, which is beautiful. But it didn't need for teenagers to get killed in Iran for the whole world to wake up.
Again, now when I'm saying that sport is being used by Islamic Republic for sport washing, for normalizing a gender apartheid regime, I keep hearing that people saying, "But still, this is a sport. The member of national team that didn't sing the national anthem."
But I want the rest of the world to understand that the Islamic Republic is not a normal regime. They're helping Putin to kill innocent Ukrainians. They're killing children. 62 children got killed.
Ian Bremmer:
Now let's leave sports and talk about the situation on the ground in Iran.
Masih Alinejad:
Sure.
Ian Bremmer:
It's obviously the very inspirational. The footage that we've seen of all of these particularly young people, particularly young women on the streets, very courageous.
Also been a lot of repression, also been a lot of brutality. Kids killed. People killed. And yet you mentioned the Kurdish region, where we have seen the IRGC, Revolutionary Guard Corps, used out in force, literally murdering people, strafing buildings.
We have not seen the IRGC in other cities in the country. Why do you think...This is a regime that is known for its brutality. There's clearly a differential response that we're seeing in different parts of the country. We were talking about the woman, she's been pressured, the rock climber.
Masih Alinejad:
Yes.
Ian Bremmer:
But she's still public. Why has there been as much restraint as there has for a regime that is capable of such brutality?
Masih Alinejad:
To be honest, I think that the Islamic Republic knows that if they now kill people, the more that they kill, the more that people get determined to take back to the street.
The more that they kill, the more people get angry to take back to the streets. And the reason that they kill people in the cities of Kurdistan, it's because it doesn't get much media attention.
But immediately when people get killed in Tehran, big cities, in Isfahan, Shiraz, so people can reach out to international media, and that's why they're actually... Massacre happening in Zahedan. Only in one day, 70 people got killed. Only in one day.
They were praying, they were all shot in their back. Children got killed. So it didn't get that much media attention. So that's the reason. But I have to say that right now, a lot of people believe that if the world leaders of democratic country, if they don't take strong action, they will open fire and the massacre going to happen, like 2019.
Ian Bremmer:
Like 2019. So in terms of the Kurdish region, is the fact that the Iranians are willing to massacre people in the open public... Does the rest of the Iranian population have the same level of solidarity for a minority region as they would Tehran, for example?
Masih Alinejad:
This is the first time in our history that we see a sense of unity among Kurds, Turks, Baloch, Arabs, and it's very beautiful. For the first time that you hear when people get killed in Kurdistan. In Zahedan people chant that, "Kurdistan, [in arabic]."
It's a very touching and emotional slogan saying that, "Kurdistan, you are not alone. Zahedan is with you. Tehran is with you." This is the first time. And that unity actually scares the regime.
Right now, when people actually got killed in city of Javanrud, Mahabad, people in Tehran, they called for another day to take to the streets and support the Kurdish minority.
Ian Bremmer:
I saw that there were demonstrations early on in the oil fields, some work stoppages. And that of course brings me back to 1979, which has an enormous impact. Very fast impact on the Iranian economy. Haven't seen much of that since. Why is that? And how much does it matter if you start seeing industry shut down?
Masih Alinejad:
Of course, it's very important. Look, the oil workers just walked out recently. We need more. But now the truck drivers, they joined them for national strike, but the lack of... The Iranian regime cut off the internet, and the level of brutality is very high.
So they went after, as I told you, children. And the family members of those who went under strike, the regime went after them and forced them actually to go on TV and denounce their families.
Even when they kill innocent children, they forced their family members to go on TV and do false confessions. So for that, it takes time. It's not easy. It's a marathon.
We have a really tough road ahead. So it's just a beginning. And I'm sure that more university professors, teachers, oil workers, will join the national strike.
Ian Bremmer:
Now you mentioned the internet. There have been internet stoppages, but they've not been complete. They've not been full shutdowns. I was interested to see that the head of the Iranian Chamber of Commerce came out quite publicly and was very critical of the Iranian president saying, "This is really hurting our business, our economy. You can't continue with these stoppages." How unusual is that? And how much power do business interests have to prevent some of the repression, to keep society functioning, for example?
Masih Alinejad:
To be honest, actually, in some days when people took to the streets in different cities across Iran, they cut off the internet. We didn't have any news from many protestors, many cities.
The reason actually they're not cutting off internet, actually, of course it's for business. But Iranian young generation, they're really smart. They know how to bypass filtering. They know how to bypass... Right now that I'm talking to you, social media or...
Ian Bremmer:
Telegram for example, all those.
Masih Alinejad:
There are filter.
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah. Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
Like Twitter, 18 million people are banned from using Twitter. But listen, it's unbelievable that here in America, people were celebrating when Trump was kicked out from Twitter. No?
Ian Bremmer:
Some were. Yeah, some were. Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
But Khamenei is still enjoying...
Ian Bremmer:
Still on Twitter, yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
On Twitter. While 18 million people are banned from using Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. This is actually now the true problem that Iranian people are facing, that why the tech companies...
Ian Bremmer:
People watch the show. You think the Supreme Leader should be banned from Twitter?
Masih Alinejad:
Of course, he should be kicked out from Twitter.
Ian Bremmer:
For saying things that have been far more violent than anything that former Donald Trump did.
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly. He using Twitter to call for massacre. He using Twitter. He actually announced that women who are unveiled, they deserve to be raped. And it was a link to Me Too movement in the West.
He said that women in the West getting raped, you hear them through a Me Too movement, it's because they don't cover themselves. They don't wear hijab. It means that you deserve to get raped. He used Twitter to say that we have to eliminate Israel.
Ian Bremmer:
I remember that.
Masih Alinejad:
You remember?
Ian Bremmer:
Of course. Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
He actually used Twitter to say that.
Ian Bremmer:
And that's not helping Twitter advertising at all.
Masih Alinejad:
You tell me why the tech companies still allowing Taliban and Khamenei to use freedom of expression while the... Using Twitter is a punishable crime in Iran. I really don't get that.
Ian Bremmer:
Well, the biggest reason, of course, is because when you talk about American individuals, they are much more visible in the United States. They'll get much more pushback. Where in Iran, the Iranians care a great deal, but the Americans don't. Right? So the level of pressure is much lower.
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah.
Ian Bremmer:
That's, of course, the issue.
Masih Alinejad:
I know, but I actually wrote to tech companies.
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
They were saying that the threats that the Islamic Republic leaders actually write on Twitter, it's not real threats. So the head of Twitter was saying that this is saber-rattling. Is that correct?
Ian Bremmer:
Yes.
Masih Alinejad:
But it's a real threat for Iranians. And look, when Khamenei was using Twitter and actually publishing the fatwa, which was issued by Khamenei against Salman Rushdie, you think he was not serious? The assassination attempt...
Ian Bremmer:
Salman Rushdie, we saw what happened to him.
Masih Alinejad:
Happened, and right after-
Ian Bremmer:
In the United States. In New York, just a few months ago.
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly.
Ian Bremmer:
Could have been killed.
Masih Alinejad:
Could have been killed.
Ian Bremmer:
Very easily, yes.
Masih Alinejad:
And you know what happened? Iranian regime actually published Salman Rushdie's picture. It's very heartbreaking. And celebrating that he lost one of his eye, that shows you that this is a terrorist state.
And believe me, if the democratic countries do not get united to end this, one of the most dangerous regime, they will get united with Putin, China, Maduro, they will end democracy.
Ian Bremmer:
So the Supreme Leader has taken a personal interest in you relatively recently. After your appearance with my friend Bill Maher, there was a threat that was made directly against an American agent. He was referring to you. How did you respond to that?
Masih Alinejad:
First of all, I'm not an American agent. I have agency as a woman who grew up in the Middle East. But if I was an American agent, I had to support the nuclear deal. No?
Because President Obama, President Trump, President Biden, three of them, they were very desperate to get a deal from Iranian regime. I was against it-
Ian Bremmer:
That makes you a very sneaky American agent that all that, you know.
Masih Alinejad:
Look, they call me American agent, the agent of CIA, the agent of MI6, the agent of Mossad. I don't get it. I don't have time to work for different agent...
Ian Bremmer:
But they also threatened you?
Masih Alinejad:
Yes. Not only me, my family. They put my brother in prison for two years to punish me. I was very depressed that time because he didn't do anything. And I was under pressure to stop my work, which is giving voice to voiceless people.
They brought my mother, they interrogated her for... 70-year old mother for two hours to convince her to take me to Turkey. My brother exposed that plan, so that's why they arrested my brother.
They actually took my sister on TV to denounce me publicly. I was watching my sister 17 minutes disowning me. They did everything to make me miserable. But clearly, they're scared of me and they're scared of my platform because I give voice to millions of Iranian brave leaders inside the country.
Ian Bremmer:
And you're no longer able to live in your home?
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah. I'm a village girl.
Ian Bremmer:
See, I think of that as Greenwich Village. Is that what you're saying or not really?
Masih Alinejad:
No, my hometown in Iran.
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah. Yeah. That was the other choice. Yeah, exactly.
Masih Alinejad:
In a very beautiful...
Ian Bremmer:
It's all the black that made me think of downtown New York.
Masih Alinejad:
No. No. In a beautiful village north of Iran, which my father, my mom, there were street pedlars. They were growing vegetables and selling the vegetables to the people in the cities. I grew up in that community.
So I made my house in Brooklyn like my village. I planted trees after my mother's name, after my brother's name, after my father's name. Now I have to be even away from my garden, from my neighbors.
And I'm not scared of my life. But this is very scary that you see in front of the eyes of free world, the Islamic Republic sent people here in New York to kill you, to assassinate you, to kidnap you. This is scary. I left Iran because I wanted to use my freedom of expression here in America, but it seems that even America is not safe.
Ian Bremmer:
So our audience understands, you have been moved now to, if I understand right, three different safe houses by the Americans?
Masih Alinejad:
I'm still living in safe houses.
Ian Bremmer:
You won't even tell me where you're living here now? No?
Masih Alinejad:
No. I can invite you when....
Ian Bremmer:
No, that's okay. But I'm just-
Masih Alinejad:
When the Islamic Republic is gone and we are safe, I can invite you to Iran.
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
But here, it's so sad that the word safe is too luxury. Not for me. For many Iranian dissidents, their lives are in danger. Not even in New York. In Canada, in Turkey, in different cities across Europe, people are not safe. Why? Why? I cannot believe that. I'm asking why, but I know the reason. You want me to tell you why?
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah, you might as well.
Masih Alinejad:
Because the Iranian regime, when they don't see any consequence, when they're not being punished for all the assassinations and terror attacks that they have done before, there's no reason for them to stop killing people, assassinate people. No.
Ian Bremmer:
Well, indeed. And also because when the sanctions have already taken 30%, 40%, 50% off of your economy, they also don't believe there's much left that the Americans, the Europeans can do to functionally threaten them. There's not much deterrent beyond what's already been done. So there's a level of impunity that the Iranian government, I think, now feels.
Masih Alinejad:
I think that there are a lot the West can do to stop them. Could do. They didn't. For instance, in my meeting with Secretary Pompeo, with Secretary Blinken, I met with all the leaders here, with Jake Sullivan.
And I was clear that why there is no mention about human rights under 12 conditions of nuclear talk. Why? Why you easily bury human rights under nuclear deal? So that's why when the Iranian regime see that still the US sent billions of dollars to the Revolutionary Guards, then there's no reason for them to...
Ian Bremmer:
You're talking about the unfreezing of the Iranian assets when the initial deal was signed?
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly.
Ian Bremmer:
Yes. Okay.
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly. And look, Iranian regime now is very desperate. The only thing can make them survive, it's the US government and it's allies to get back to the deal.
Ian Bremmer:
And yet, everything they've done on the ground to the Iranian people make it almost inconceivable that the Americans would be willing to re-sign the nuclear deal.
Masih Alinejad:
But they didn't announce it yet. They didn't say that loud and clear that the deal is over-
Ian Bremmer:
And they should-
Masih Alinejad:
They should. Not only that, they should actually... The US government must call its allies to recall their ambassadors, the leaders of G7.
Ian Bremmer:
Because the Americans do not have an ambassador there, of course.
Masih Alinejad:
I know.
Ian Bremmer:
But other countries do. Yeah.
Masih Alinejad:
In my meeting with President Macron, actually I said that.I was angry. I said, "Why did you shake the hand over Ebrahim Raisi, the butcher of Tehran?" He was like, "France is all about diplomacy." I said, "No. No. No. No."
Ian Bremmer:
Yeah. He's the one leader that keeps calling Putin. It's true.
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah.
Ian Bremmer:
I see it all the time.
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah. Yeah. But I said, "France is also about revolution as well. You can be the first country to recognize Iran's new revolution and call your allies. Not only just saying that, 'We stand with the people of Iran.' We don't want you to stand. We want you actually to sit down, and recognize the revolution, and meet with the leaders of oppositions."
Ian Bremmer:
And he said?
Masih Alinejad:
He said, "I'm ready to do it." So that's the real action.
Ian Bremmer:
When was that conversation?
Masih Alinejad:
It was in Paris, like few weeks ago. He was the first president who recognized the revolution. Now he's here.
Ian Bremmer:
Any steps yet to actually reach out to the opposition?
Masih Alinejad:
Yeah.
Ian Bremmer:
He has taken a step?
Masih Alinejad:
He actually wants me to have a delegation of opposition leaders, and have a meeting and tell him what we really want.
Ian Bremmer:
Okay. I hope that happens.
Masih Alinejad:
I hope so. Because the world leaders must be prepared to accept an Iran without the Islamic Republic.
Ian Bremmer:
Well, you can't have a conversation just with an illegitimate covenant. You haven't talked to the opposition. Venezuela. The Americans are talking to the opposition. Russia. The Americans are talking to the opposition. How can you not be talking to the Iranian opposition?
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly.
Ian Bremmer:
It's a fairly obvious point.
Masih Alinejad:
Exactly.
Ian Bremmer:
Had no one told this to Macron before?
Masih Alinejad:
No.
Ian Bremmer:
It seems like his advisors are not doing a good job.
Masih Alinejad:
That's very good point. This is the first time in the history that Macron, president of France, met with opposition. Why? Even here, why President Biden don't meet with opposition leaders?
They only meet with human rights activists and saying that, "We stand with you." It makes me angry. I don't want you to stand, sit down and take actions because it's unbelievable.
This is a progressive revolution. Doesn't matter whether Republican are in power or Democrats. It should be a bipartisan issue because an Iran without Islamic Republic can make the whole world much safer place to... It's good for everyone in the region.
Ian Bremmer:
But you don't want the Americans necessarily calling actively for regime change, in the sense that when the Iranian government is claiming that it's Saudi Arabia, it's Israel, it's the United States as foreign actors that are behind these demonstrations. It's not the Iranian people.
Masih Alinejad:
I don't want them to bring regime change for us. We are doing it.
Ian Bremmer:
Right.
Masih Alinejad:
We are doing it. What I want is very clear. When people are risking their lives and asking for regime change, you cannot patronize them and saying that, "This your culture," or, "This is internal matter," or, "We don't want to touch this."
By not taking strong action, sending billions of dollars to Revolutionary Guards, by keeping silent actually you are taking side. There is a war in Iran, which being imposed on Iranian people by Islamic Republic. Unarmed people getting killed.
Ian Bremmer:
Correct.
Masih Alinejad:
So when the American government still want to negotiate, still not recognizing this revolution, clearly they're taking side. So I don't want the American government or any Western government bring democracy for us or regime change for us. We, the people of Iran, are doing this. And I want them to recognize this revolution and stop legitimizing one of the most barbaric regime. Is that too much to ask?
Ian Bremmer:
What do you think it takes to actually domestically, to remove this regime? Are you hopeful? You said it's a marathon, but are you hopeful that this theocracy will actually crumble?
Masih Alinejad:
Definitely. Look, the Islamic Republic took everything away from us. Everything. Everything. As we were talking, we don't even have a national team because being taken away from us.
Everything. Our freedom, dignity, but not hope. Not hope. Millions of people in Iran believe that the revolution already happened In their heart. They believe that they're going to win this battle because for years and years, the regime was successful to create fear within the society.
We always had the fear inside us, but now this is the Islamic Republic. They are scared of us. They're scared of teenagers. They're scared of school girls. Can you believe that?
School girls who are being forced to cover themselves. These days, you see that they're leading their revolution by taking off their veils and waving that, burning the head scarf. And that means that they're not going to be slaves anymore.
They're not going to obey the mullahs anymore. This is the end for the Islamic Republic. When you see that teenagers are saying, "Death for dictator." Teenagers are saying that, "We don't want a religious dictatorship."
Ian Bremmer:
Masih, thanks for your spirit.
Masih Alinejad:
Thank you so much. I hope one day I really invite you to Iran.
Ian Bremmer:
That's it for today's edition of the GZERO World Podcast. Like what you've heard? Come check us out at gzeromedia.com, and sign up for our newsletter Signal.
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