Podcast: When cities go global

Transcript

Listen: Cities are stepping up to address the world's thorniest challenges, from climate change to migration. Ian Bremmer sits down with three mayors from across the globe to talk about how their cities are taking on the world's most pressing problems.

TRANSCRIPT: When cities go global

Marvin Rees:

City leaders in the face of failing national governments, or underperforming national governments, stepping up themselves onto the international stage. They're saying, "We'll come out and do it ourselves."

Ian Bremmer:

Hi, I am Ian Bremmer and welcome to the GZERO World Podcast. An audio version of what you can find on public television where I analyze global topics, sit down with big guests, and make use of small puppets. This week I sit down with three mayors from around the world to talk about how their cities are stepping up to solve some of the world's thorniest challenges. We'll hear from the mayors of Freetown, Sierra Leone, Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr. Bristol, UK, Marvin Rees, and Milan, Italy, Giuseppe Sala. Let's get to it.

Announcer:

The GZERO World is brought to you by our founding sponsor, First Republic. First Republic, a private bank and wealth management company, places clients' needs first by providing responsive, relevant, and customized solutions. Visit firstrepublic.com to learn more.

Ian Bremmer:

Marvin Rees, Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr, Giuseppe Sala, thank you so much for being with me.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Thank you.

Ian Bremmer:

Let me start. In one sentence, tell me the biggest, the most daunting challenge that you are facing leading your cities today. Marvin?

Marvin Rees:

Delivering on our housing crisis. Over 11,000 people on the waiting list, hundreds of families in temporary accommodation, a growing population, and the failure to deliver on housing is having echoes all into mental health, social stability, inequality.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Rapid urbanization. I have my population growing at 4.2% per annum. Currently, 1.2 million people in the city expected to be almost 2 million by 2028, and that has significant impacts right across the board.

Ian Bremmer:

Giuseppe?

Giuseppe Sala:

Growth and solidarity. Milan is a very successful city now, but we want to share the success to all the people in Milan. So giving the people who's living in the peripheries, for instance, to have the same opportunity.

Ian Bremmer:

So very different kinds of challenges. Let me start with you, Yvonne. Yvonne, if I had to vote for you again right now, what's the accomplishment that you could say, "Okay, I'm glad that we have-"

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Sanitation.

Ian Bremmer:

Because?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Because when I came on board, 21% of solid waste was being collected. 6% of liquid waste. Absolutely, you should open your eyes. It really was horrendous.

Ian Bremmer:

21% when you started in terms of total waste being collected, what is it right now? You have a percentage?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

We don't have a percentage, but we know it's over 35% already.

Ian Bremmer:

So over 50% improvement.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Over 50% improvement.

Ian Bremmer:

In just over a year. That sounds like something you can get behind. What about you? Where are you right now?

Marvin Rees:

Well, I find your opening question quite difficult because to talk about a single issue, that is the preeminent issue is somewhat accurate, but also incredibly unfair for a city leader. Because when I talk about housing, it is about building housing, but it's affordable, it's building balance safe communities. It's the implications from mental health, inequality, the ability to have a platform to get employment. We've got over 20%, nearly quarter, of our children living in income deprived households so it's actually what I do as a city leader and what we all do is work with interdependent issues and multiplicity of issues. You have to deliver on so many fronts at the same time.

Ian Bremmer:

So if it was up to you, Marvin, would you want cities to have more power in the capacity to govern in the UK than they have presently? You want more decentralization of power?

Marvin Rees:

Absolutely.

Ian Bremmer:

Would you, Yvonne?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Absolutely, absolutely.

Ian Bremmer:

Giuseppe?

Giuseppe Sala:

100%.

Ian Bremmer:

Because now you come from a city, Milan, that is driving economic dynamism in Italy. Enormous amounts of investment, a richer part of the country, a place that, frankly, a lot of people would want to see more of the revenue stay in. How do you resolve that in a country that is, let's face it, not the most dynamic performer in Europe.

Giuseppe Sala:

We can, in Milan, tell the people we have a vision for 2030 where through urban development, mobility angling, we will create opportunity, we will create jobs, and we will create a new city. But that is not true for Italy. All the political debate in Italy is based on migrants and security putting together.

Marvin Rees:

But this is an issue that's come up for us as city leaders that I think there is an appetite and there's an ability to work internationally in a way that maybe our national governments cannot. I mean, I don't want to say it's easy, but actually we share populations. Our national governments talk in terms of discreet borders and zero-sum success. What we're looking at as a network of cities and these growing networks of cities is our interdependence around migration, around climate change, around democratic legitimacy. And cities are talking about connecting with each other. And one of the points Yvonne often makes is just the whole journey of people around the world from source to transition to destination.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Yeah, I think we talk about it in terms of take a 360 view of migration. And it's really important to not think of cities of origin, like myself, as being these passive players where all we do is feed potential migrants to destination cities. There are dynamics happening in cities like mine. For one thing, I'm also a destination city in as much as that growing population is coming from rural migration. So I'm also faced with the challenge of integrating rural migrants, providing services while at the same time potentially facing the loss of skilled labor going out as regular migrants to destination cities. So one of the really beneficial things that we've been doing as the Mayor's Migration Council is to see how we can support at the city level those conversations, which address the factors which trigger migration, whether it's political instability, whether it's climate change, whether it's just simply the pursuit of happiness.

Ian Bremmer:

Let me impress you a little bit on this, Yvonne, because you go to a place like Freetown and the human capital concentration is staggering, and that's critical for the future of your city. On the other hand, when these people leave and they're able to build a global connection, they're able to bring that back. The remittances as well, obviously matter. Plus, you have the staggering challenges of just managing a burgeoning population. And let's face it, you'd probably like that growth to be a little bit more manageable. How do you balance those things? How do you think about that? I mean, if you had your druthers, where would that be? Where would you put your finger on the scale?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Balancing it is critical. 75% of my population, my residents, are 35 years old, and under. 60 to 65% of them are either unemployed or underemployed. So I do have a human capital challenge. But I also need to ensure that in managing that balance, you're talking about irregular migration, which is often what the west talks about, industrialized, the global north as it's called. But you need to understand that for every one person that makes it to Milan or to Bristol, I'm losing maybe nine along the journey. And that's losing them in terms of people dying as well as people getting stuck in transit destinations. But more significantly, I am also losing, as part of that metric, as part of those numbers, I'm also losing professionals who I desperately need to harness.

Ian Bremmer:

Now I'll ask all of you what you think about other cities and models for some of the challenges that you have, but before I have to push you, what is Brexit? We're three years in so far. What's the core impact that you've seen? How have you felt that? How have your people experienced that in Bristol?

Marvin Rees:

So how have we felt? We had a spike in hate crime in the city. It's been a real drive towards, which I think is one-dimensional political positions. My position is what I can fit into a tweet, no nuance. So I think it's a wider problem that we're facing in that it's actually debasing the whole quality of civic discourse. And my real concern is as well as the economic impact, which will make people poorer. And then the architects of Brexit would, if they're successful in getting anything through, which is not certain, they'll just go on and blame migrants and they'll blame the fact that we didn't get a good deal. That's what's going to happen. But I'm also really concerned about they're opening up a Pandora's box here on some very unsavory politics. I am a mixed race guy.

Ian Bremmer:

First mixed race mayor in Europe.

Marvin Rees:

The first mayor of African heritage in Europe. I was elected the same day as Sadiq Khan. He was the first Muslim mayor. But as the conversation begins to flow, it makes me feel very uncomfortable about my standing in the United Kingdom and how people view me. And I think someone could charge to me about go back to your own country, and yet I was born in the UK and my white family, my white heritage, go back centuries.

Ian Bremmer:

Does it make you want to address that issue more publicly? Or does it make you want to just not pay any attention to it and say I'm just a mayor?

Marvin Rees:

No, I'm pretty open about it. And actually I think that, if I can say, I do think that my heritage gives me a bit of an opportunity to talk about it, because I'm a brown skin man with white blood flowing through my veins that goes back in the UK a lot further than some of the people who would talk about migrants in an unsavory way. And every time I'm called, I get the opportunity, I will address that.

Ian Bremmer:

Now, it's interesting, all three of you, and this wasn't intentional, are opposition mayors. Just very, very quickly. I want to ask all three, does it make it easier when you've got someone to blame on the other side in the capital of your national government? Yvonne, yes or no?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

No, it doesn't.

Ian Bremmer:

Why not?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Because at the end of the day, you are going to be judged by what you deliver and it makes it actually harder because there's so many perceptions, barriers, potentially, in those relationships, those dynamics. So you're working extra hard to make sure you keep your people on side, but you're also engaged in a constructive manner, the central government.

Ian Bremmer:

Giuseppe.

Giuseppe Sala:

It is not easy. But let me say that now, the Milanese and the people from Milan are proud to be at the position of this government.

Ian Bremmer:

In other words, a little easier.

Giuseppe Sala:

I don't know.

Ian Bremmer:

I'm hearing you say a little easier.

Giuseppe Sala:

I don't know, but we will fight because we know that we are a model and we will go higher to demonstrate that our model can work.

Ian Bremmer:

In your case, Italy has a rather untraditional government right now, right? It's not Berlusconi days, it's not Renzi days. This is Salvini and Grillo. This is the Euro-skeptics coming to roost and an unusual coalition running Milan, the industrial firepower of Italy, and watching the country be run by people who really don't like a lot of what you stand for. How does that dynamic work for the Milanese?

Giuseppe Sala:

The Milanese think that we are getting result. We want to create our future, but we know that without an industrial vision, without an idea to reshape the future, nothing will happen.

Ian Bremmer:

Now, people are increasingly angry with their national governments. And Marvin, you expressed this very clearly when you talked about Brexit. Is it easier to be a mayor in closer contact with your citizens? Is it easier to stand up and be a legitimate face of government for a city today than is for a country?

Marvin Rees:

I certainly think there's something in there. I walk into work in the morning or I run or I ride. I don't have security. I live on the streets of my city. My kids go to local schools and people know that. And actually my own personal interests are tied up with the interest of the city intimately. My friends are in the city as well.

And I had an experience in the last general election, actually. I was out with one of our candidates running for parliament and we knocked on doors. And what I noticed was a bit of a pattern is that there was a real hostility to people running for parliament. But when I said, "Hey, I'm the mayor. I'm fighting for Bristol," there was a difference in tone that it felt like I was owned by the city. Now, I'm not saying it's all peace and love and harmony. I've got my own challenges in Bristol. But I did notice that sense of, well, you are politician. You are Bristol. And part of the issue is about this distant legislative machine that has no contact with the real lives, ordinary people.

Ian Bremmer:

Now you, Yvonne, have never been in politics before. Do you feel like being a mayor insulates you a little bit from being in politics, or do you feel like you've still jumped in with both feet?

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

I think I would like to feel as though I'm insulated, but everyone around me is making it clear to me that no, you're a politician now. I spent ages saying, "I'm not a politician, I'm not a politician," but that's been ignored. What I have-

Ian Bremmer:

Just like Trump, actually.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

No.

Ian Bremmer:

I never thought I was going to compare you to him, but apparently you have one thing in common.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

No, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to accept that. Now, what I would say though, in terms of politician, non-politician is one of my favorite sayings is an African proverb, "when the elephants fight, the grass suffers." And I keep reminding everybody that I'm here to fight for the grass. So I'm not doing the big politics thing.

Marvin Rees:

I just want to come in defense of politicians here.

Giuseppe Sala:

More or less I am in the same situation. I used to be a manager in the private sector, but now my feeling is that I am a 100% a politician, but I'm not throwing away my managerial skills. And that is fundamental. So sometimes when I try to describe a city, I say a city is managing together, but consider three pillars. Number one is the general services, public transportation, hospital, schools, cleaning, they have to work otherwise-

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Nothing.

Giuseppe Sala:

Nothing. Second pillar, when the citizen understands that the services are working, they will ask you. "What about the future?" But then there is a third fundamental pillar, which is narrative, storytelling.

Ian Bremmer:

They call this guy Mr. Expo. So he's got the branding. You wanted, defend politicians. Okay, try to do that.

Marvin Rees:

I want to defend the profession. So when I ran, I ran and lost in 2012, and the person I lost to made a big thing about I'm not a politician. I'm a mixed race son of an unmarried white woman who lived in a refuge with his child for a little while. I got elected, I'm a politician. Becoming a politician is not a box you fit into and you lose all your heritage and your history. And in fact, some of it was, well, Marvin's a politician. And I felt like I got mugged of my story. The guy I was running against was a privately educated millionaire who was running without a party who then said, "Well, I haven't got a party, so I'm not a politician." But wait, you represented all that privilege and that's social immobility. And so I find actually the way that this kind of anti=politician narrative have been played has been quite problematic.

And you in your country and Trump and cohorts, me and my country with Farage and Boris Johnson-

Ian Bremmer:

Nigel Far, yeah.

Marvin Rees:

We've got these phenomenally establishment characters who sit on the top of a socially immobile system who rail against the establishment of which they are an absolute expression, and then claim to be anti-politician and then claim to people who need politics to work for them. And I think there's a real price to be paid because the people who are most susceptible, certainly in my country, to that anti-politics narrative are the people who most need government to work for them. And this whole anti-politics conversation that goes on dissuades people from voting, engaging, running for office. And it's those people who most on the margins of political engagement, pay the highest price when it doesn't work for them. But as they step away from it ceases to express their views. I think there's a real danger in this kind of anti-politics narratives that places ... In fact, I want to own the term and claim it back and show that it can be a good place to get good things done.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

And I want to agree with that. But at the same time, I want to explain that there are contexts, and I think Milan and Freetown may have some similarities where there's a history and a perception, which ... So totally accept when you've got people who are doing an anti-establishment, but they are in fact the establishment. I think that Mayor Sala and myself both come from the private sector. And not that in itself makes you a servant, but perhaps it's more around ... And maybe the narrative we need to play with that a bit more. It's more around making the point about servant leadership. That we're here to serve and it's not a career in itself. Holding office in itself is not the reason for being there.

Ian Bremmer:

Now I am feeling that there's a bit of a confederation, an identity of mayors going on here.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Oh, there is. There is.

Ian Bremmer:

So I want to ask you, who's the rockstar mayor that isn't in this room right now? If we had to have a fourth that you all hang up, say, "This is the person who's really getting it done," who is it and why? Let's start with you, Giuseppe, because you know a lot of these characters.

Giuseppe Sala:

Let me say Eric Garcetti from Los Angeles.

Ian Bremmer:

From Los Angeles.

Giuseppe Sala:

New York, I mean ... Let me say, I have a couple of cities which are reference from me. One is New York and the other one is London.

Ian Bremmer:

Interesting, right? Because if you look from a global perspective, the headlines are all about how the United States and the United Kingdom are losing so much influence, and yet mayor of one of the most cosmopolitan dynamic cities in the world, Milano, when I ask you who do you see as a number one, you're pointing to the United States and the United Kingdom.

Giuseppe Sala:

That's right. But trying to be positive. Our very famous former colleague, Michael Bloomberg, said, "This is the sanctuary of the cities" and I completely agree with him.

Ian Bremmer:

Giuseppe Sala, Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr, Marvin Rees. Wonderful to be with you. Thank you very much. On GZERO World.

Marvin Rees:

Thank you.

Yvonne Aki-Sawyerr:

Thank you.

Giuseppe Sala:

Thank you.

Ian Bremmer:

That's our show this week. We'll be right back here next week. Same place, same time. Unless you're watching on social media, in which cases, wherever you happen to be, don't miss it. In the meantime, check us out at gzeromedia.com.

Announcer:

The GZERO World is brought to you by our founding sponsor, First Republic. First Republic, a private bank and wealth management company, places clients needs first by providing responsive, relevant, and customized solutions. Visit firstrepublic.com to learn more.