Podcast: The World Watches, The ICRC Acts

TRANSCRIPT: The World Watches, The ICRC Acts

Peter Maurer:

Only those crises which are at the crossroad of global political interests get some attention, politically.

Ian Bremmer:

Hi, I'm Ian Bremmer and welcome to the GZERO World Podcast. I'm host of the weekly show, "GZERO World" on Facebook Watch. In this podcast, we share extended versions of the big interviews from that show. This week, I sit down with Peter Maurer, president of the International Committee of the Red Cross, and former secretary of state for foreign affairs for Switzerland.

Ian Bremmer:

As a diplomat, Peter helped integrate Switzerland into the United Nations, and as president of the ICRC, he strived to improve humanitarian response through innovation and new partnerships. Today, I'll ask him about humanitarian aid in a fractured world, the greatest crisis we're not hearing about and the role technology can play in addressing some of these crises. Let's get to it.

Announcer:

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Ian Bremmer:

And I'm delighted to be here with Peter Maurer. He's the President of the ICRC, the International Committee for the Red Cross. Peter, wonderful to have you on the GZERO.

Peter Maurer:

Thanks for having me.

Ian Bremmer:

Where, right now, would you say is the most challenging environment for you to operate?

Peter Maurer:

Overall, I must say that between West Africa and Afghanistan, there is not much good news. Parts of Syria are still global battlefields in which people are displaced in big numbers. Yemen is the same. What is may be the difference in this region compared to some of the African conflicts in the Great Lakes region, you have outrageous amounts of poverty coming on top of armed conflicts and displacements. While in the Middle East, you have basically middle income societies who are, as such, more resilient, which give a different type of humanitarian pressure and humanitarian need.

Ian Bremmer:

Now you've said that your organization itself is extremely flat in the way it's set up, and I'm wondering if that's something that is sort of required given the nature of work you do, or is it a reaction to the challenges of these individual environments?

Peter Maurer:

If you want to be close to people, close to problems and respond accurately to those problems, you have to have responsible people on the ground who take decisions, can judge what situations they are in. You have to rely on frontline deliverers, frontline negotiators. You have to give them a capacity to operate. You have to train them, to support them, to instruct them, but afterwards, they are on their own in very difficult situations. And I think therefore, the sort of organization which is driven by responsible field operation gives the flatness, and it comes from our willingness to be in places where others are not, to be where it is most difficult, and to assist and protect people.

Ian Bremmer:

One crisis you have experienced that you think isn't getting the attention it needs, what would it be?

Peter Maurer:

Well, I think almost every crisis except Syria. It is of course clear that only those crises which are at the crossroad of global political interests get some attention, politically. Many other, if I look at in particular the conflicts south of the Sahel, these are basically the places where I visit and where I see this configuration of poverty, violence, conflict, leading to the most pressing humanitarian needs, and the complete absence and disregard of the international community at large.

Peter Maurer:

I would mention maybe a second part, which is closer to the United States, and that's urban violence in Latin America, which in terms of humanitarian effect is today sometimes as serious as wars in Africa, but doesn't really get to the forefront of attention neither, in terms of response nor in terms of public attention.

Ian Bremmer:

In sub-Saharan Africa, I mean, with the Chinese having such a strong economic role and with over a million Chinese living in the area, are you starting to see them more interested, more engaged, spending more money? Or is it really no, it's just still absent, Africa's still the forgotten continent?

Peter Maurer:

Well, China is very much present in Africa, and India is present in Africa, and we certainly do adapt our diplomatic work in a sense that we are engaging today much more. Also, engaging China as a important high contracting party of the Geneva Convention, as an actor on the ground to support the work we are doing, not only financially, but also politically, and to generate understanding from such important actors as China, for the value of neutral and impartial humanitarian assistance, the value of international humanitarian law.

Peter Maurer:

I have designated a special envoy of the president of ICRC only to deal with China and to engage with China on some of the big conflicts of the world. It's obvious that in terms of influencing and shaping belligerence and their behavior, China does play an important role, and will play an even more important role in the future.

Ian Bremmer:

Now, one other thing I wanted to ask you about is you were just recently in Silicon Valley, and not just asking for sort of technical support from these companies, but also concerned about destructive technologies, concerned about cyber. I'm wondering how cyber conflict and cyber tools is complicating the humanitarian crises that exist around the world today.

Peter Maurer:

We are still very much at the beginning, I think, of generating interest of the business community and states to engage into these questions. What does international humanitarian law in the cyberspace look like? What is an attack? What is a belligerent? What are the rules governing the cyberspace with regard to warfare, cyber warfare? I think many of the companies have started to think deeply on those issues, and we really need much more than just a state dialogue. We need organizations like mine, the business community, working on cybersecurity and states in a room, to think about those normative frameworks regulating the future of warfare in cyberspace.

Ian Bremmer:

There's been a lot of talk about a digital Geneva Convention, something that would perhaps provide at least some rules of the road that belligerents would want to adhere to. So far, at least I don't think any major governments have taken it up. What's the ICRC's position?

Peter Maurer:

The whole question is what you mean by "digital Geneva Convention," and it's maybe not yet fully clear. What is obvious is that we need to think hard on how to adequate the terms and terminologies and norms which have developed over the last 155 years in governing warfare to the cyberspace. And then we will find out whether we need new law, whether we need just new interpretation of existing laws and principles.

Peter Maurer:

And I think if we consider that digital Geneva Convention is a reflection process on what kind of laws and regulations can be carried over from kinetic warfare into digital, and what really are new issues which we have to deal with, if we can take it as a concept of debate and not as a fixed tool to negotiate, that's probably the more adequate approach at the present moment. We need a conversation starting, and I think that's what is important.

Ian Bremmer:

I think it would be useful if you could share a personal story since you've taken over the ICRC, where you feel like you've actually made a real difference.

Peter Maurer:

I'm just back from Libya. Libya is not a traditional conflict where ICRC would necessarily just jump on. It's a middle income country, and as a president, I have to see, to move the organization towards these places. And I think what is important is always to be on the ground and to see how you can shape the tool you have, the organization you have, in a way to respond to needs of people.

Peter Maurer:

And I think I tried to do it just a couple of days ago in Libya, and all my field operations are basically full of experiences and meetings with people in stark needs. And I think that's what motivates me constantly than to see how can an organization like mine be sharper, more accurate, to be responsive to those needs.

Ian Bremmer:

Peter Maurer, thank you so much.

Peter Maurer:

Thanks.

Ian Bremmer:

That's your GZERO World for this week. Next week, with the holiday weekend, we'll be off, but come back the week following and we have Moises Naem. He's the smartest guy I know on Venezuela and a lot else. You're really going to enjoy it. Come back soon.

Announcer:

The GZERO World is brought to you by our founding sponsor, First Republic. First Republic, a private bank and wealth management company. Imagine a bank without teller lines, where your banker knows your name and its most prized currency is extraordinary client service. Hear directly from First Republic's clients by visiting firstrepublic.com.

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